Sunday, May 1, 2011

Updates & pics!

We have been busy letting Addie train us how to be parents. She's good at it!
Finally after 3 weeks, we have time to put some of the pictures we have taken over the period.

Addison taking one of her beauty sleeps. We're convinced of this because she keeps getting cuter!

Andrea and I last week on my birthday; 2 days after Addie's original due date of April 26.

Nana Moore (Andrea's mom)

Grandma Miller (my mom)

Great Grandma Miller, Grandpa Miller, Me (a very tired version of me)

Grandpa Miller (Addie is about 40-minutes old!)

PaPa Moore meets Addie

Having another beauty rest...
Addie's first bath. It wasn't as bad as she made it sound...

Our Chihuahua decided she would finally get near the baby. She has been a little stressed out about us giving so much attention to someone besides her. She's getting over it!

Parenthood is cool as can be! She's growing fast enough that even we look at her and think she looks different. That's saying something considering we constantly have an eye on her!

She has seen her pediatrician a couple times now and is growing nicely and is a very healthy little girl. We're so happy!
More pics soon!

Saturday, April 9, 2011

Welcome to the world, Addison Elise!

Addison Elise Miller

April 7, 2011, 4:53 pm

7 pounds, 9 ounces

20.5 inches long

Steve did an amazing job of keeping up with the events of Addie's birthday! I will fill in with my side, but be warned that I may be more

Last belly shots - 37 weeks, 2 days

David and I got to the hospital at 7 am. It took awhile to get the paperwork done, get my IV going, and get me settled. David left to take our kids to school and that's about the time Steve and Andrea arrived. I was contracting pretty well on my own, so I'm pretty sure Addison had chosen that to be her birthday regardless! When Dr. Fletcher arrived, she attempted to break my water. We weren't sure it ruptured, but whatever she did made the contractions more regular and a bit stronger. I needed Pitocin with my last two pregnancies (both surrogacies), so I had figured I'd need it again. But here I was doing it all on my own! Since I was hoping for a natural, unmedicated birth, I was pretty excited since Pitocin makes the contractions much more painful. Anyway, I was dealing with the contractions well, but they didn't seem to be quite as long as they should be. I could tell the baby was still high up too. I sat on the birthing ball for a good part of the labor and it was helping me to be more comfortable, while helping Addison move down. When Dr. Fletcher came back to check on me, she attempted to break my water again. This time, she definitely got it! There was quite a bit of fluid. I thought contractions would get really bad from here on out, but they actually spaced out a bit. I was getting frustrated, as this was now the longest time of "painful labor" I have ever experienced. I continued sitting on the ball for a bit, then moved back to the bed (which, by the way, was the most uncomfortable bed ever)! I made it to a 9 and there was just a little bit of cervix left that wouldn't quite dilate. I was getting even more frustrated, as the contractions were quite intense...but I was also worried the contractions would not be quite long enough for me to even push through, as they weren't lasting long at all. We agreed to start a small dose of Pitocin. Wow. Contractions intensified and the next thing I knew it was time to push. The room suddenly became busy with people coming in, my bed being broke down, and people getting into position. Steve stood up by my right shoulder, as David stood at my left fanning me. (He does this with every delivery, as I get very upset when he Andrea was going to deliver Addie, but before I was even pushing she was in tears. Seeing her react this way actually helped me to remain focused, as it reminded me why I was here. Dr. Fletcher got ready to deliver and Andrea stood by her side, ready to meet her baby girl. With the next contraction, I pushed once for her head. I heard Dr. Fletcher talking to Addison, so I knew I was almost done. I pushed a second time within the same contraction and out come her shoulders, with the rest of her following right behind. I opened my eyes just in time to see Andrea scoop up her baby girl and take her to the warmer. I was exhausted and still in some pain, but I noticed there were very few dry eyes in the room.

Steve and Andrea stayed at the warmer with Addison and the nurse while Dr. Fletcher attempted to deliver the placenta. Now, as I've mentioned before, this was a concern for me as the placenta would not release with my previous two surrogacies and it caused quite a bit of trouble and concern last much so that David donated blood for me last week "just in case" it happened again. Well the placenta was giving us problems yet again. I literally cried, as I was scared and disappointed. Dr. Fletcher was amazing though and was patient in giving it time to do it's own thing. Unfortunately, it was not coming out whole. Since I was so terrified, she ordered Demerol for me via IV. Once I felt loopy, she went after it. Let me just say Demerol did nothing for the pain. To me, it was like saying, "Hey, what's that over there?" to distract me, then going after it anyway. Yeah, no bueno. Thankfully, Dr. Fletcher was quick and was able to get it all. Just as everyone thought all was well, my blood pressure bottomed out. I don't react well to Demerol apparently. A sense of doom overcame me and the room went white. Luckily, a quick dose of Narcan reversed the effects and I was well again in a matter of minutes. Once everything was settled, Steve and Andrea brought Addison over to meet me for the first time. She is absolutely beautiful! (Wish I could take credit for that, but she gets it all from her mom and dad!) I was happy I got to witness Addison meet her grandparents for the first time too. We spent most of the evening together, then they took their baby girl next door to their own room. I didn't sleep too well, as I was still in the hospital in a horrible bed. I did get some rest though. Early the next morning, I could hear the sweet cries of a sweet girl next door. It brought a smile to my face, as I know she is truly a miracle gift from God. We spent most of the day together again in my room. Steve and Andrea even attempted to squeeze in a nap and left Addie with me, David, and Steve's parents for a bit. I was discharged early in the afternoon. I had thought about hanging out a bit to get more time with everyone, but I figured it was time to let them be a family and I needed to get home to my own children.

I am so grateful that Steve and Andrea chose me to carry their precious daughter. It was another beautiful journey and I feel so blessed to have been chosen by them and God to bring this precious miracle into the world. I think we made a great team and I have a special place for all three of them in my heart.

Thursday, April 7, 2011

It's Addie's Birthday!

07:00 LaDonna scheduled to arrive at the hospital and get "hooked-up"
08:30 Andrea and I arrived at the hospital, got settled in; checked in with LaDonna
09:05 Water broken by Dr. Fletcher
09:30 The grandparents have arrived, all hanging out chatting w LaDonna
10:01 Trying to help the hospital understand a Pre Birth Order
10:37 Going back to LaDonna's room - let's see if she throws anything at me
10:59 Dilated to a 6, Contractions 4 min apart (she did not throw anything (yet))
11:06 Looked back to the guessing game found earlier in this blog. LaDonna guessed April 7th as Addie's birthday!
11:44 6.5 now and Addie has not come down much
11:59 Ordering lunch for everyone. LaDonna has ordered as well which means she has expectations! This is good!
12:14 Andrea just delivered another baby on the floor. She might deliver Addie too!
13:01 Lunch is over - LaDonna is hanging out on a big exercise ball in effort to coax Addie down a little
13:28 Dr. Fletcher is here, LaDonna is at 7+
13:31 Dr. Fletcher & Dr. Miller just left for a milkshake. I guess that means it will be a little while. I better not have to deliver this baby myself!
14:10 LaDonna says things are picking up in the contraction category. I introduced David (LaDonna's husband) to one of those funny iPhone autocorrect websites. He is now contracting as well.
14:25 Up to an 8 now. The ball must be working!
14:34 Baby warmer has been turned on
15:14 We're at a 9, nothing else to report right now. Waiting for next step
16:18 Still at 9, Pitocin has been started
16:53 Addison Elise is here!

A ton has happened since 16:53; way more than I can possibly rehash here. Suffice it to say, Addison is PERFECT! She weighs 7lbs 9oz and is 20.5" long.
LaDonna is doing great!

Tuesday, April 5, 2011

37 weeks...and this is it!!!!

We're 37 weeks today, so we've made it to "full term"! Had another OB appointment this morning and I had some protein in my urine. Blood pressure was OK though and I've lost 2 pounds. My uterus measured 38 weeks, which it's measured about a week ahead for awhile now. I am now dilated to "almost a 5," so we're already almost half way there! How crazy is that?!? Dr. F stripped my membranes, so hopefully that will help get labor going a little more. Baby is still high up, so I'm going to try walking to get her to come down some. If she doesn't come on her own before then, we'll be going into the hospital at 0700 on Thursday to augment and get this show on the road! Wow. Hard to believe I only have 2 more days with Miss Addie. It's so bittersweet. My part in this is about over, but I'm so, so excited that Steve and Andrea will finally have their little girl in their arms!!!!

Wow! Holy big belly, Batman!

Yes, I's unreal. Sorry if I scared you. LOL

Addison may have grown under my heart, but she grew inside her mommy's and daddy's. :)

Sunday, April 3, 2011

Nursery Pictures

It looks like Addie will be making her grand entry soon so I wanted to post a few pictures of the completed nursery before it becomes a disaster area!

Check out the wall art LaDonna's Husband, David did for Addie! All of that was freehand; and on a rough wall, no less!

I think Addie will be very well dressed...

We want to thank everyone for helping us accomodate Addison. From furniture to clothing to forumla, friends and family have gone above and beyond to help us make things perfect for her.

Wednesday, March 30, 2011


Well I'm dilated to a 3, 75% effaced, and baby is a -3 station. Her weight estimate today was 7lb 13 oz. My bet is that I'll go in for my appointment next week with "advanced dilation" and be sent up to L&D to get this show on the road. Honestly, I'm OK with that if my body has already progressed far enough and we're at least 37 weeks, as her weight is definitely making me nervous. I realize that the weight estimates are likely off, but I will say she is really starting to feel heavy too.

Besides her weight, my other concern is having a "sticky" placenta again. If the placenta doesn't deliver on it's own, my doc will have to retrieve it and possibly do another D&C to remove it. This could cause increased blood loss as well. My wonderful husband donated blood for me this morning though, so at least I know whose blood I'll be getting if I happen to need it. Some may think I'm overly paranoid, but I prefer to think I'm just playing it safe. :)

Wow. So this will actually be happening soon! I can do this.

Check out how cute her kissy lips are! Isn't she precious?!

Tuesday, March 29, 2011

Thirteen years of incubation experience...and I still obsess

Thirteen years ago today, I kept wondering if I was in labor. I had occasional pains. I was nesting like crazy. But I refused to go back to the hospital, only to be sent home yet again. My water did break about 11:30 pm that night and my beautiful first born was born at 1:32 am on March 30th. Thirteen years to the day later, I'm 5 days further into this pregnancy than I was with that one. While I don't expect Addison to come anytime today or tomorrow, I admit labor is constantly on my mind. Every little twinge, ache, and trip to the bathroom makes me wonder when it's going to happen. I officially feel like a ticking time bomb. I try not to dwell or obsess about it, but I know I need to be prepared since Addison calls the shots here. It's a constant worry if my water may break in public or if labor will begin and I won't realize it until delivery is near. Hopefully neither will be the case, but this pregnancy has been so easy *knock on wood* that I almost expect a dramatic (but safe) delivery. We are now 36 weeks and have another appointment tomorrow! I'm hoping not much has changed, as Addie really needs at least one more week in the womb. But next week, all bets are off and Miss Addie can come whenever she's ready. She sure has a lot of people waiting to meet her!

Wednesday, March 23, 2011

It's a girl thing...drama, drama, drama...

We hit 35 weeks yesterday, but the past few days have not been much fun. My feet and legs have been swelling like crazy, as you can see. I'm sure it's mostly caused by me being on my feet at work too much. Then, yesterday, I wasn't feeling great. I went to CVS and checked my blood pressure. It was 126/64, which is great for most people; however, it's a bit elevated for me. I went in to get checked out at the OB's office. By the time I got there, it was back down to 112/60. I had a few keytones in my urine, but it wasn't enough for concern. Since I was there though, we went ahead and did my appointment that was orginally scheduled for this morning. My uterus measures 36 weeks, Addie is estimated to be around 6 lbs, 9 oz (WOWZA!), and I'm dilated to a 2. Since this is baby #7, they're not worried about me being a 2 already. She's still high up and that's a good thing.

Then, today, I've been kinda crampy. I'll spare the details, but there was another reason I decided to call Andrea and get her opinion on if I should go in or not. We decided I would, just to ease minds if nothing else. They put me on the monitors in L&D. I was actually having mild and irregular contractions every 8-10 minutes. Luckily, they weren't progressing dilation and I was sent back home.

I am so frustrated right now. With my first baby, I went to L&D a lot to get checked and was always told it was "nothing." She ended up being born at 35 weeks, 3 days (which would be the day after tomorrow for Addie) after my water broke prematurely. Then, with the twins, I waited to go in because I just thought it was the pressure from carrying 2 babies. When we got there, I was already dilated to a 5 and I wasn't even sure labor had started! Labor did stall at a 6 with them, but all my other labors (with singletons) have been fairly fast. You would think after this many kids, I'd know what is going on with my body. *sigh* I have a feeling these last few weeks are not going to fly by like the previous weeks have.

I absolutely refuse to deliver Miss Addison prior to 37 weeks though. She must stay put until April 5th at least! I honestly think she'll be born after that point. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up being "evicted." But, for now, it's anyone's guess...

Wednesday, March 16, 2011

34 week OB appointment

So I'm thinking I'm pregnant with a The ultrasound today showed even MORE hair on Addison's head! Plus her estimated weight is currently at 5 lbs, 11 oz. Needless to say, I'm a little nervous. I knew she was getting big though, as it's obvious when she moves that she's running out of room. Dr. F said she won't let Addie go over 4000 grams (8 lbs, 13 oz) though. I'm not a fan of inducing, but I would prefer that over a c-section!

Everything looks great though! My blood pressure was 110/66. Addie looks perfect and has her head down on my cervix, but I have not started to dilate yet. (This is good!) We start going weekly for the OB checks now.

This is where I start getting nervous. It doesn't matter how many times you've given birth, it's still a little scary because every delivery is different and there's always fear of the "unknown." I'm sure all will go fine though. (Hey...we will have 2 awesome docs there!) Seeing Steve and Andrea meet Addison finally will make it all worth it!

Tuesday, March 15, 2011

6 weeks to go!!!!

WOW! We're 34 weeks today! There's not much to report. I'm feeling pretty good overall. Swelling, heartburn, constant urination, and being tired are still in my list of complaints...but hey, it can't all be fun and games, right? ;) We have an OB appointment tomorrow and I'm anxious to get a weight estimate on her.

Right now, I crave dreamsicle snowcones. I literally want one daily and usually give in to it. Addie tends to get really active afterwards. :)

I'm getting excited and I know Steve and Andrea are too! We don't have long to go now!!!!

Wednesday, March 9, 2011

She's not mine!!!! :)

We hit 33 weeks yesterday! Hard to believe this little girl will be here in 7 weeks or so! I received a copy of the pre-birth order in the mail today! I was getting nervous, as it seemed to be taking awhile. But all is well and Steve and Andrea can legally go on their daughter's birth certificate now! This also releases David and me from any parental responsibility. Seems so silly that so much has to be done to get the biological parents on their own child's birth certificate. Hopefully, someday, a simple DNA test will do all this without all the legal legwork prior to birth. But this is how it is for now and we are ready! The only thing we're waiting for now is for this little girl to be considered full term (4 more weeks) and then she's welcome to come anytime!

Overall, I'm feeling pretty well. My feet still swell and I'm always so thirsty, which in turn makes me go potty a lot (including all hours of the night)...but that's about the worst of my complaints at the moment. I'm still enjoying my time with her and I'm kinda sad it will end so soon. It seems this pregnancy has flown by! But I know that her birth will not be the end. In fact, it will be a beautiful beginning of a new life. Her mom and dad will finally have their baby in their arms and it will indeed be a joyous day. :)

Guess I should start thinking about packing a hospital bag here soon, huh?

Wednesday, March 2, 2011

Perfect OB appointment!

As Steve posted, we had our 32 week appointment this morning and all is well! I just thought I'd post a few more details, more for my records than anything. :) My blood pressure was 102/66. I measure right at 32 weeks and everything looks perfect. I've gained a total of 9 pounds for the pregnancy, although it's gone up and then back down slightly. I have had tons of Braxton Hicks with some pressure though. With this being my 6th pregnancy and with the last being twins, we went ahead and checked my cervix. It's soft, but high and closed. Whew! Anyway, Addison is definitely a cutie and I still can't believe there's another little human in there! :) Can't wait to meet her next month!

32-week Check-up

We are getting check-ups every two weeks now so Addie is getting plenty of attention. Today Dr. Fletcher took a close look and doppler reading of the cord to ensure it's not getting twisted around too much; everything is fine. Femur is still measuring long but we're pretty tall so that's expected. Heart rate is 143bpm and the girl has an amazing amount of hair! Fletcher says it's the most hair she has ever seen at this stage. The ultrasound follows - look for the cursor pointing out all that hair!

Tuesday, March 1, 2011

32 weeks!

Wow, there's only 8 weeks left until our due date! We can officially say, "She's due next month!" as of today too!

I am feeling better this week. I have had almost a week off from work though and go back Thursday, but hopefully it won't be too bad. I've had more pressure down low and I'm sure it's just because she's getting bigger and taking up more room now. It seems my weight has leveled off again, thankfully. Tomorrow is another OB appointment, but hopefully there won't be much to update on just yet. All the super exciting posts will be in the next 5-10 weeks, I'm sure!

Tuesday, February 22, 2011


I try not to complain much, but we are 31 weeks today and it's time to whine a little. I work 2 days a week, which isn't much, but it's about to kill me. My feet and legs are swollen and my socks actually hurt from the indentions they leave by the end of my shifts. The only other time I have ever swelled like this was just a week or so before the twins were born, then it worsened after their delivery. But to swell this early before delivery? Yeah, it's never happened to me before now. Maybe I should just be grateful for that?

I also can no longer clean certain areas of my house and have hired someone to help out once a week for the next few weeks. She's starting this Friday. (Cleaning the bathtub about killed me yesterday.)

I'm not sure why, but I have also gained about 5 pounds over the past 6 days and many of my maternity clothes are not quite fitting over my belly at this point (pants and shirts). Sleeping is becoming more difficult due to having to get up to potty 2-3 times a night and not being able to get comfortable. Miss Addie is putting a lot of pressure on my tailbone too and I often feel it pop...which is a weird sensation.

Now with all that said, I don't regret for a single minute doing this. I would (and probably will) do this again (if it's in God's plan). I adore this little girl and I know she's worth every minute of all of this. I just hope I can survive the next 9 weeks!

Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Updates Galore

A couple of updates in order of activity:

Over the weekend Addison was thrown a shower at Cindy Cook's home by several of Andrea's friends and coworkers. This was a great party with around 30 in attendance. Here are some pictures:
Ladonna, Addison & Andrea

Addison's cake

Very cool idea; a project table where everyone could design Addie an outfit! Here are a few of them hanging to dry.

Julie, Kim, Tray, Misty & Cindy with Andrea. These were the party planners; they are very much appreciated!

Some of the group as they watch gifts being opened. In the turquoise is Tiffany, she handled most of the photography of the event - thanks ton!

And another view of the rest of the group. Everyone at both showers have been so generous! It looks like Babies-R-Us threw up in our house! Thanks to Becky for helping Andrea keep track of the gifts.

Finally, a very special thank you to Cindy & Rick Cook for opening their home to all this craziness!

LaDonna and Addison had their 30-week appointment today so we had an opportunity to check in on the little one with ultrasound. She is measuring 30 weeks, 5 days (at 30 weeks, 1 day), 3lbs 8oz, everything is developing as it should, and her hair is even longer than the last US two weeks ago!
There are a few good face shots somewhere in there that shows her nose and also several great general profile shots. Because of her environment, a decent 4D image was not possible.

Tuesday, February 15, 2011

Holy big belly, Batman!

First, I must announce that I passed the 3 hour glucose test! Woo hoo! No gestational diabetes! Addison and I can continue to enjoy Drumstick ice cream cones! We are two happy girls! :)

I am also very relieved to know I'm not a gestational diabetic, for many reasons, but mostly because I think she would've been a (more) HUGE baby if I had it! Check out my 30 week pic! The first one was taken at 30 weeks with the twins. The other was taken this morning with Miss Addison in my belly. I know I'm slightly bigger with the twins, but not by much. Hmmmm...maybe I should cut down on the Drumsticks?

Monday, February 14, 2011

Blessings, blood, and bellies

Andrea had another shower yesterday and she had a great turn out! So many friends were there to support her and she was definitely showered with love and gifts. :) Unfortunately, I don't have any pics...but I'm hoping maybe she or Steve can share some here soon.

As for me, I went in for the 3 hour glucose test this morning. I got there just before 7. They were supposed to draw my blood, have me drink the sugar drink, then draw my blood every hour for 3 hours. Well, instead of 4 sticks, I was stuck 7 times total. One of the phlebotomists had a hard time with my veins. Since I couldn't drink or eat, I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was slightly dehydrated? I don't know, but it's said and done and now we just wait and PRAY for passing results!

Also, I've been comparing belly pics of this pregnancy with my last pregnancy (which was twins). Let me just say that I shouldn't do that. I have come to the conclusion that Addison is either HUGE or there's a hidden baby in there or the twins just stretched me out and Addison is taking up every square inch. All I know is there wasn't much difference in size at 28 weeks. I will be taking another belly pic tomorrow and I plan to compare belly pics again. (Yes, I'll post them both here for the world to see.) Yeah, I realize I'm freaking myself out...but I think I need the next 10 weeks to prepare myself if she's going to be bigger than any of the other 6 babies I've delivered. (And, if she is, I'm totally blaming Steve.)

Thursday, February 10, 2011

Furniture Has Arrived!

Addison's furniture arrived today from Dallas! Turns out it's the perfect size for her nursery. I was a little worried it might be too big (I wasn't there when it was picked out so I had no real point of reference on size). It's perfect!
This is not exactly where the furniture will end up in the room, but it's close. Also, it looks like Babies-R-Us exploded in there so don't mind the mess. We'll get things put together and post a pic sometime pretty soon.

Wednesday, February 9, 2011

A step in the right direction!

Well I passed the test yesterday! :) We wanted it below 130 (I think) and the magic number was that's really good! I still have to go in to do the 3 hour test soon though (probably Friday). Andrea and I think (hope) I will pass since this one was OK!

Addison was very excited. We celebrated with a Drumstick ice cream cone.

Monday, February 7, 2011

*womp, womp, womp*

I am totally pouting right now and near tears. I failed the one hour GTT (diabetes test). The magic number is to be 140 or below and mine came back at 157. :( I'm also anemic, but that didn't surprise me since I was with the last two pregnancies as well. My H&H was 10.1 and 31.7, but should've been at least 12 and 36. I'll start taking some iron pills and that should correct that problem. However, the diabetes problem isn't as easy to fix. I will go for a blood draw tomorrow, then I'll do the 3 hour test on Friday. I'm praying like crazy I pass because I know Addison and I are NOT going to like the diet we'll have to be on. I know it's only 10 weeks or so, but that's a long time when it comes to food! C'mon, body of mine, don't wear down on me now!

Sunday, February 6, 2011

Baby Shower #1

So Saturday was the first baby shower for Andrea, Steve, and Addison. I was able to go to Tulsa and share in the fun. I was finally able to meet all of Addison's grandparents, as well as other family and friends. I know this little girl is already very loved and spoiled. :)

Here are a few pics:

Steve (trying to look as big as me unsuccessfully), me and Addison, and Andrea

Steve showing off the outfit he came home from the hospital in.

Addison modeling her new hat and sunglasses :)

Friday, February 4, 2011

28 week OB appointment

We were finally able to make it in for our 28 week OB appointment this morning and we will be going every 2 weeks now! My blood pressure was 104/60 and baby's heartrate was 140. I have gained a total of 6 pounds. I drank that yucky orange drink and had my blood drawn to test for gestational diabetes. We should get those results next week. Please pray I pass! The ultrasound showed that Addison is definitely growing and getting a bit cramped in there. :) She's still head down, so I'm hoping she behaves and stays that way. Oh...and we could see hair on her head! Can't wait to see just how precious this little one is in person! Won't be much longer now!

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Third trimester is here!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it's obviously a snow day here in Oklahoma. That's why I don't care if I have no make up on, am wearing my glasses and my pajamas, and look like I do. :) We are 28 weeks today and are officially in the 3rd trimester! Braxton hicks are picking up and I feel like she's getting heavier. Overall, though, I still can't complain! Our OB appointment was supposed to be tomorrow morning, but it has been rescheduled for Friday due to weather. Hard to believe this sweet precious baby will be here in 10-14 weeks!

Wednesday, January 19, 2011

Who will be the closest?!?!

Just for fun, please come take a guess on when Miss Addie will arrive and how big she'll be! Be nice...don't make me come find you! ;)

Tuesday, January 18, 2011

26 weeks!

Well here's a pic of how Addison is growing! Yeah, we're getting big, I know. :) (And a pic with my baby, Sawyer, this time too!)